Post by Samtendo09 on Oct 29, 2018 19:33:32 GMT -5
I looked into the Nintendo Creator's Program whitelist (which shows what Nintendo property games are allowed for you to use within the service) and there is an oddity about the Paper Mario series.
Before you will ask if they only included Sticker Star and Color Splash (as well as Paper Jam, if this one counts)... no, they did not included the former two games, but they did added Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam since this one is part of the Mario & Luigi series as a whole. They did not included Super Paper Mario either, sadly.
But what they did included for the whitelist is both Paper Mario 64 and The Thousand-Year Door! Is that a coincidence?
Well, difficult to say it at first, since there is a lot of oddities within the whitelist, but when the first two Paper Mario games are in and not the rest, I believe that there is something suspicious about it.
Why would it be the case? Well, consider the following factors; gameplay, backlash toward SS and CS, and potential Nintendo's overall feelings about the latter two games and probably about current IS' direction of the series.
Gameplay
Paper Mario is not best known for consistency, especially within the gameplay. Only Paper Mario 64 and TTYD have the same type of gameplay, while SPM, SS and CS went into another direction. While SPM is just an example of why RPG and Platformer genres can't mesh well (well, judging by the execution), SS was only a result of rushed gameplay development after it somehow goes away form its beta that is closer to 64 and TTYD, and I want to remind you that Miyamoto himself did not liked the Sticker mechanic, calling it boring.
Source of proof: https://www.reddit.com/r/nintendo/comments/6whxwj/why_miyamoto_is_not_responsible_for_the_fall_of/
I do not think a different gameplay alone would be enough to cause Nintendo to not be fully fond of the three latest games, but it did play a part of it against them, especially SS and CS. And its very unlikely we will get another SS-styled Paper Mario game, so at least them moving beyond that is good enough for some fans, but not all.
Backlash
At first it is not difficult to not blame Miyamoto for "ruining" the Paper Mario franchise, but there are more and more proofs that it is IS as a whole who are being the bigger problem. Nevertheless, it can understood why SS and CS had so much backlash, as despite SS' huge sales, the backlash did played a part against Color Splash's low sales compared to more successful Wii U games like New Super Mario Bros. U, Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze, Mario Kart 8 and even Mario Party 10. That, and also because the game releases near the end of the Wii U's lifetime.
When the low sales happened, even as a Mario game, there is a problem. SPM had received backlash back to its release probably to different gameplay, but it got better characteristic and story (based on general consensus) to make up for that, something that SS and CS really lacked.
Nintendo even apologized to the angry public who vented their rage against SS and CS, and Nintendo is very unlikely to allow the same problems to repeat. In fact, once SS' problems are discovered during its release, backlash ensues and CS' similar gameplay even hurt its sales does to turning away people does to multiple problems being retained from SS. Not helping is that Tanabe is apparently ignoring the backlash.
Time will tell if Nintendo will avoid the same pittraps that Sticker Star and Color Splash fell into or fail to understand what makes the two first games so charming in the first place, but if IS somehow make a worse Paper Mario game (or one with equal backlash), it will actually be worse since the Switch Paper Mario game will stick out as a sore thumb even more does to the grandiose success of Super Mario Odyssey, and the return-to-form of Mario Tennis Aces and Super Mario Party despite their own shortcomings. And I do not think Nintendo will want the worst case to happen.
Overall
There are more and more proofs that Nintendo are not so fond of SS and CS than they used to be, especially when considering their exclusion from the Nintendo Creator's Program whitelist. Difficult to tell why exactly this happened with SPM except of gameplay-wise situation, but the backlash is too big for Nintendo to ignore, and they could understand why. After all, I said earlier that Miyamoto didn't liked the Stickers mechanic, and that what he told to IS is not "do it or its game over, man", but instead suggestions. The interviews with Tanabe might possibly caused Nintendo to see what's up with Tanabe doing with the series or at least worried about not following feedbacks.
I find it difficult to believe that most of the current Paper Mario problems would continue, especially because it so much lacked functionality and creativity. I find it incredible that Nintendo didn't included Sticker Star and Color Splash despite the team's enthusiasm, though Sticker Star and maybe Color Splash at least have a "Nintendo Select" or something similar for later copies, but this also applies for other games with high sales, so its not a huge accomplishment.
Time will tell if Nintendo will learn from SS and CS backlash, or if IS will dig deeper in the hole even if they really shouldn't. Possible release for Paper Mario Switch is at late 2019 or late 2020, but with Tanabe being busy with Metroid Prime 4 and the IS team with the upcoming Fire Emblem game, its not easy to know what will it be this time.
What is your opinion on this? Do you really think this is a coincidence, or did the exclusion of SS and CS from the NCP's whitelist was truly surprising despite Sticker Star's high sales and shows that Nintendo is losing faith on those two games upon learning further about the backlash and didn't want to at least not wanting to let even players who are more forgiving to make a playthrough recorded on YouTube.
Before you will ask if they only included Sticker Star and Color Splash (as well as Paper Jam, if this one counts)... no, they did not included the former two games, but they did added Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam since this one is part of the Mario & Luigi series as a whole. They did not included Super Paper Mario either, sadly.
But what they did included for the whitelist is both Paper Mario 64 and The Thousand-Year Door! Is that a coincidence?
Well, difficult to say it at first, since there is a lot of oddities within the whitelist, but when the first two Paper Mario games are in and not the rest, I believe that there is something suspicious about it.
Why would it be the case? Well, consider the following factors; gameplay, backlash toward SS and CS, and potential Nintendo's overall feelings about the latter two games and probably about current IS' direction of the series.
Gameplay
Paper Mario is not best known for consistency, especially within the gameplay. Only Paper Mario 64 and TTYD have the same type of gameplay, while SPM, SS and CS went into another direction. While SPM is just an example of why RPG and Platformer genres can't mesh well (well, judging by the execution), SS was only a result of rushed gameplay development after it somehow goes away form its beta that is closer to 64 and TTYD, and I want to remind you that Miyamoto himself did not liked the Sticker mechanic, calling it boring.
Source of proof: https://www.reddit.com/r/nintendo/comments/6whxwj/why_miyamoto_is_not_responsible_for_the_fall_of/
I do not think a different gameplay alone would be enough to cause Nintendo to not be fully fond of the three latest games, but it did play a part of it against them, especially SS and CS. And its very unlikely we will get another SS-styled Paper Mario game, so at least them moving beyond that is good enough for some fans, but not all.
Backlash
At first it is not difficult to not blame Miyamoto for "ruining" the Paper Mario franchise, but there are more and more proofs that it is IS as a whole who are being the bigger problem. Nevertheless, it can understood why SS and CS had so much backlash, as despite SS' huge sales, the backlash did played a part against Color Splash's low sales compared to more successful Wii U games like New Super Mario Bros. U, Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze, Mario Kart 8 and even Mario Party 10. That, and also because the game releases near the end of the Wii U's lifetime.
When the low sales happened, even as a Mario game, there is a problem. SPM had received backlash back to its release probably to different gameplay, but it got better characteristic and story (based on general consensus) to make up for that, something that SS and CS really lacked.
Nintendo even apologized to the angry public who vented their rage against SS and CS, and Nintendo is very unlikely to allow the same problems to repeat. In fact, once SS' problems are discovered during its release, backlash ensues and CS' similar gameplay even hurt its sales does to turning away people does to multiple problems being retained from SS. Not helping is that Tanabe is apparently ignoring the backlash.
Time will tell if Nintendo will avoid the same pittraps that Sticker Star and Color Splash fell into or fail to understand what makes the two first games so charming in the first place, but if IS somehow make a worse Paper Mario game (or one with equal backlash), it will actually be worse since the Switch Paper Mario game will stick out as a sore thumb even more does to the grandiose success of Super Mario Odyssey, and the return-to-form of Mario Tennis Aces and Super Mario Party despite their own shortcomings. And I do not think Nintendo will want the worst case to happen.
Overall
There are more and more proofs that Nintendo are not so fond of SS and CS than they used to be, especially when considering their exclusion from the Nintendo Creator's Program whitelist. Difficult to tell why exactly this happened with SPM except of gameplay-wise situation, but the backlash is too big for Nintendo to ignore, and they could understand why. After all, I said earlier that Miyamoto didn't liked the Stickers mechanic, and that what he told to IS is not "do it or its game over, man", but instead suggestions. The interviews with Tanabe might possibly caused Nintendo to see what's up with Tanabe doing with the series or at least worried about not following feedbacks.
I find it difficult to believe that most of the current Paper Mario problems would continue, especially because it so much lacked functionality and creativity. I find it incredible that Nintendo didn't included Sticker Star and Color Splash despite the team's enthusiasm, though Sticker Star and maybe Color Splash at least have a "Nintendo Select" or something similar for later copies, but this also applies for other games with high sales, so its not a huge accomplishment.
Time will tell if Nintendo will learn from SS and CS backlash, or if IS will dig deeper in the hole even if they really shouldn't. Possible release for Paper Mario Switch is at late 2019 or late 2020, but with Tanabe being busy with Metroid Prime 4 and the IS team with the upcoming Fire Emblem game, its not easy to know what will it be this time.
What is your opinion on this? Do you really think this is a coincidence, or did the exclusion of SS and CS from the NCP's whitelist was truly surprising despite Sticker Star's high sales and shows that Nintendo is losing faith on those two games upon learning further about the backlash and didn't want to at least not wanting to let even players who are more forgiving to make a playthrough recorded on YouTube.