Post by solidfalcon3 on May 8, 2014 8:51:25 GMT -5
I alway had this odd theory:
Basically at the beggining of developpement, Alpha dream originally intended Antasma to be some being related to Count Bleck along with some SPM references (the original dream portal being similar to Queen Jaydes's portal), as they realized that the game would be released during the 10 years of Mario & Luigi they redesigned him into someone who had the traits of all Mario & Luigi villains as a tribute along with bringing back some past beanish characters.
They made Antasma explode, so they will be able to BS him back into what they originaly wanted, the more unique villain design that has some passing resemblence to Count Bleck.
Has any villain ever returned from exploding? I like the theory, but I don't know if they can just bring him back. Then again, Fawful popped up when some thought he was dead. The Shroobs were frozen when we thought they all died.
Post by solidfalcon3 on May 8, 2014 10:26:07 GMT -5
Elder shroob princess got the Cackletta threatement (body destroyed and soul destroyed) and still came back but then again i get the feeling she used her new found time powers (when she absorbed the cobalt star) and did some doctor who-like trick in which she tricked time into believing she was still alive.
The shroobs were destroyed but came back.
Antasma also explosed in the intro, depending on how his powers work, explosing might not be letal for him (they can also just either go the nightmare way and say he can come back as long peoples have fear or the bat symbolism way and have him being reborn in different way like Bowletta)
I love the idea that he can come back as long as people have fears! That would make him the hardest villain to kill in the series. I want that to be the explanation. They would have to eliminate fear itself to finally destroy him.
Post by solidfalcon3 on May 8, 2014 10:44:21 GMT -5
Actually since he isn't a nightmare by origin, they could find a macguffin which would strip him of his nightmare powers but as long he would have the nightmares, you would be able to kill him, he would just come back later just fine.
He'd be a top tier villain. They would really have to take all his powers to finally get rid of him. I can see him putting up a huge fight and trying to destroy this macguffin that can strip him of his powers.
Post by solidfalcon3 on May 8, 2014 11:40:49 GMT -5
Another reason why i think that Antasma is an homage and might get a redesign is because in Mario & Luigi, the villains are alway evil counterpart to the introduced race:
SS = Beanbeanians, villains are cackletta and fawful. PIT = Shroobs are evil counterpart to the mushroom kingdom BIS = Dark Star is evil counter part of Starlow, Midbus of Bowser DT = The race is Pi'illos and yet Antasma is a bat with nightmare powers
Aside from the nightmare or the Pillow form, Antasma isn't an evil pi'illo or a counterpart to them.
Oh, good point! Haha, how did I never notice that?! He is unique among the villains then. He could totally get a redesign then. Maybe even a few new forms.
Post by solidfalcon3 on May 8, 2014 13:36:52 GMT -5
That what i'm thinking being a counterpart of Bleck and the Ancients/Tribe of darkness would work, Antasma could even use the technology which the ancients used to create entire dimensions, maybe even the same tech described in the dark prognosticus which allowed the creation of pixls.
Like there was a group named the "masters of dimensions" which put all their knowledge into the dark prognosticus and would be the ones that could use it without being enchanted by it. Antasma either realize he is a "master of dimensions" or become one allowing him to fully use their technology without being consumed like Bleck and the tribe of darkness.
Basically his base at the end of game would be on part with the pre-pixel war Ancients and would be able to regulate entire dimensions across time and space (through he would need the Elder shroob princess's time hole powers to do that)
I'm thinking this because, i like the idea that like Kirby there was some ancient civilization (halcandrians) which put a lot of strange pieces of technology accross the world
Good idea, and we know that the ancient technology is far more advance than most in the series, as Fracktail was created using that technology and he existed for a long time.
Master of Dimensions sounded like Dimentio, but Antasma turning out to be the one would be cool. His immunity to being consumed would make him absolute in terms of power.
That sounds like a cool base. He can find a way to absorb the powers needed.
Anytime you use Kirby as a way of thinking of ideas, I will listen! ^_^
Post by solidfalcon3 on May 8, 2014 15:30:48 GMT -5
Technically Antasma has his own "Dimension D" (the dream dimension which he use to access his battle form), i could see him next game being able to summon one without ripping a portal (the dream portal ability could be upgraded to a Time Portal if he steal Elder Princess shoob's time hole)
I think it would probably look a lot like a combination of Castle Bleck and Dream Deep with more technology.
Kirby can sometime influence M&L (Mario riding a warp star) and vice versa (The corrupted Lor starcutter sporting a Dark Star emblem and Magolor's first form looking like Count Bleck), so i kind of look at it.
In fact considering Kirby Triple Deluxe's final boss, i might argue Antasma would create his own Beanstalk with his vines.
A Time Portal could be destructive and a very potent power. I never thought of it as his own Dimension D, but I suppose you are right. I love that power.
Perfect! Two of my favorites areas combined with technology! A more fleshed out Dream Deep, of course. It will need to be bigger than the original to really set the mood.
Ah, Lor Starcutter and Magolor were two of my favorites, so that explains my love for them. They resemble the parts of Mario I love.
What would he do with his own Beanstalk? It would help, but he has a lot of things he would have to do first. ^_^ Antasma will be so busy.
Post by solidfalcon3 on May 8, 2014 16:01:42 GMT -5
I think Time portals would be used to access specific parts of time and dimensions.
There might even be Timepoints which is like Dreampoints but instead of becoming one with dreams, the user become one with time and dimensions, increasing its mastery over them.
The final place could be the most powerful timepoint which hold all of creation togheter. At first there is a purple beanstalk which draw power from it allowing Antasma to extend his inlfuence over all of space and time, the first phase of the final boss is against Antasma merged with it. Once defeated, beanstalk is destroyed and Antasma open a time portal and go in it. He then use his increased mastery to rip apart the fabric of time which would end all of creation barring those who stand inside the timepoint.
He could erase people via time portals, much like how the void could erase people.
Timepoints sound pretty good. It could be pretty fun to master them, I suppose.
So Antasma would be the ruler of all time and dimensions. His influence would reach everybody. Ripping apart the fabric of time sounds desperate but so awesome! Those in the timepoint could even watch as everything starts to evaporate and cease to exist. It would even be cool if their memories started to fade to, since time is affected and things start to not exist in the first place.
Post by solidfalcon3 on May 8, 2014 16:26:43 GMT -5
Or send them through other time area (like bleck can send peoples to other dimensions with his void move)
Gameplay wise timepoints would be puzzles, like time loop, area locked, etc and you would need to go inside the timepoints to fix it.
I think his plan would be to take control of all time and dimensions, so he'll be able to rewrite the laws of reality to bring back his loved one from death, once his beanstalk is destroyed, he get a Count Bleck moment and decide to destroy everything out of desesperation before starting a new world where things like that wouldn't happen.
I'm thinking Antasma becoming a master of time because Bleck and Tippi's theme is Bounding through time and it is said they overcome time. So Antasma would be also trying to overcome time itself but by making it his b****.
Last Edit: May 8, 2014 16:28:34 GMT -5 by solidfalcon3
That could be dangerous if Antasma sends others to brutal or chaotic times.
Yeah, that makes since to make them puzzles that need to be fixed/restored. As long as it is not boring.
Makes perfect sense that he would want absolute control to rewrite history and create his own perfect version of everything. I like that idea. Most villains just want to create a universe in their image, like Dimentio, and some want to erase everything like Bleck, but Antasma wanting to change events is really deep.
I guess that is one way to overcome time. Beat it into submission. So much for subtle!
Post by solidfalcon3 on May 8, 2014 17:01:16 GMT -5
He could even send them to the Galaxy 1 era or the Tribe of Darkness's dimension, showing he could even access removed dimensions/timelines like the Time eater. Heck his final minions would be brainwashed tribe of darkness members (might give a oh shit moment since you may fear of finding Blumiere within them)
Considering Antasma doesn't hesitate to break wish granting item, this wouldn't be out of character:P
I think his first phase would be a more omnious and elegant remix of his battle theme done in this style: www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGGVWGJ0ZiM
While his second phase would play a darker and omnious remix of Bounding through time (Unbounding time) in this style: www.youtube.com/watch?v=POPD80fxcD4 With the Hit-hats being replaced with a frantic clock sound and the percussion in the background giving a feel that someone is violently hammering something (in this case Antasma's trying to "hammer" time to destroy it)
Also fun fact: Antasma is described has having an evil born of corruption and base cunning.
Not my Blumiere! No! It would be cool to travel back to he the Tribe of Darkness at its height of power and control. I'd love to see that and their world.
Antasma's a real sicko! Darn wish-breaking batman!
Ominous and elegant? Not usually two things that go together except for the most refined villain. I like it!
I love the idea of Antasma hammering time and a frantic clock sound. That would be scary. It would make you think time is running out, which in this case, it really is! Maybe even add some heart beats as background sounds.
Corruption and cunning. Sounds about right. I did not know that. Sounds like Bleck too.
Post by solidfalcon3 on May 8, 2014 17:27:49 GMT -5
That or Blumiere's father, you could even free him and get a ranting from him about how he didn't want all of this to happen and ask the bros that if they find Blumiere, they'd tell him that he is sorry.
Antasma is based on Dracula, Dracula is one of the most elegant classic villains.
Castle bleck and the memory theme had a clock sound playing but having a clock sound playing during a battle would be nice.
Sound more like a combination of Bleck (Corruption) and Dimentio (Cunning), Antasma might be in between, he is more cold and rutless than Bleck but he has redeeming traits unlike Dimentio.
I'd like to see Blumiere's father. I'd love to hear that he is sorry. He is one of the biggest mysteries to me. I have always wanted more info on him.
True! Dracula started the whole thing basically. Or made it popular.
I'm talking about a frantic click ticking. Like so frantic that you think time is about to run out. That would make a great battle theme. Or maybe chiming to tell you time is up and that it is all about to end.
True, he sounds like a mixture of them! Dementio has redeeming traits, like uh... his promotion of vegetables like cabbage!
Post by solidfalcon3 on May 8, 2014 18:58:36 GMT -5
Dimentio's only redeeming trait would the fact that he seemingly didn't find happiness (and this is debatable), considering that his notion of "happiness" is hinted to be a world of eternal war...
I was thinking a distorted click tiking which play in an irregular manner giving a vibe that time is falling appart.
I also think of that because Antasma as a rival of Luigi should like King Boo and Dimentio be a threat to dimensions.
Dimentio was smart. That is redeeming in some way, right? No. Probably not. He reminds me of Kefka from Final Fantasy. He is the most evil of villains in a series where villains always have good qualities.
That's a good idea too. A clock that is no longer working properly. I like that more than my frantic ticking idea. Good one, guy! Sound distortion is disturbing anyway, even more so for a common item like a clock.
Makes sense. If Antasma and King Boo teamed up it would be scary.
True, he was apparently a general before that and normal enough. Then it went bad, next thing you know you are the God of Magic living in a tower of destruction. Life is funny like that.
I'm just thankful Bowser was playable in SPM so he did not ruin the game. I loved him in Thousand-Year Door as well, a joke who is sometimes a boss. Even Mario RPG did him right and Bowser's Inside Story and PIT. Sticker Star screwed him up though and now it carried over.
Antasma did not hear that advice though, did he? He may still follow it.
Post by solidfalcon3 on May 8, 2014 20:33:52 GMT -5
Dimentio's like that, from Bleck's jester to the King of All worlds, the only thing which failed is that he didn't account that the pure hearts could be re-powered
I like Bowser when he is laughably evil, a super serious villain just doesn't work for him.
Post by solidfalcon3 on May 9, 2014 12:24:14 GMT -5
Thanksfully Antasma hinted that he is immune against it (first villain to be implied to be able to do so), might lead to a funny scene where the ancient macguffins of pure love you collected during the game would do nothing to him or even might just plain power him up even more.
I liked his personality in Paper Mario 64 and BIS the best, he is evil for sure but he is funny and badass as well.
Well Antasma should rely on others (Midbus and Elder Shroob Princess) and use his own power (applying it in key parts of the world) to realize his plans (would be also a nice contrast to Bleck and Dimentio who relied a lot on the Chaos Heart)
Maybe even add some heart beats as background sounds.
He reminds me of Kefka from Final Fantasy. He is the most evil of villains in a series where villains always have good qualities.