Post by solidfalcon3 on May 4, 2014 14:11:29 GMT -5
IIRC, SPM has the darkest storyline of paper mario and Luigi is quite featured. Luigi's mansion has dark undertone (with peoples mentionned having died in quite horrible deaths), LM2 is even darker and the DT Luigi area are prety dark (like dream deep with the luigi's messages).
Also luigi is much more developped than Mario, so it would be obvious that his villains should have also a more complex personality.
Thousand Year Door had some dark themes, like torture devices in Hooktail Castle and Grubba, but SPM definitely had an overall dark story. A whole world was destroyed for goodness sake, and then the Underwhere and Floro story in the mines. Old Clockworks in Dark Moon really had dark themes by implying a horrible accident made the place shut down. Dark Moon and SPM are my favorite games, so I definitely like this stuff.
I agree. He has more character. His villains need to have a lot of character as well or they will not seem all that important next to Luigi. His partners need to be the same way actually. They all need to be developed and not just random.
Post by solidfalcon3 on May 4, 2014 16:41:52 GMT -5
what i think by having villains more developped is that they don't need to use the whole kidnaping plan RPG villain and Bowser use. King boo for instance didn't have the whole kidnaping shtick, his plan was to break the Dark Moon so he could gain an army to conquer the world, he just imprisoned mario because he was opposing him and because he wanted to exploit Luigi's weaknesses.
Antasma didn't exactly need Peach either, he wanted to steal her love power but you could argue that next game, his plan would be to create some trap or device which would be then used to steal all peoples's energy to power himself up/power a Macguffin then rule the world but Luigi walked by and noticed something was fishy, starting the adventure.
What I think of being more developed is in feelings and motives too. They don't need to do something just because they are the evil guys. Heck, they don't even have to be all that evil. I know games need to have some clear villains and good guys, but villains like Antasma can have some deeper feelings to motivate him. More so than villains like Shadow Queen at least. I agree with you as well about not needing the kidnapping angle. I loved that SPM started with one and then threw it out the window.
I just hope the designers can go the whole game without kidnapping and random betrayals!
I do wonder what Antasma would use as his Macguffin though. I have no clue. We'll think of something.
Post by solidfalcon3 on May 4, 2014 17:34:43 GMT -5
That's too, Luigi is a character which has hidden depths thus he need villains which have also hidden depths.
They should at look at kirby, it do have pretty nice plots and yet there no kidnapping (aside for the last one).
It may be surprising but love could work, remember Antasma was planning to steal peach's power, her power is love implying he can use the power of love unlike other villains who are affected negatively by it. It would be interesting if he used love against you.
Kirby always kicked Mario's butt in plots. That's why Darklaw wanted an RPG Kirby. It would be worth it, since RPGs are the only time Mario beats Kirby in plots mostly.
That would be weird. We know Bleck had love and used it to fuel his hatred, but Antasma could harness that power in a whole different way. Perhaps a much more effective way, especially since Luigi would be easily affected by that powers, as would most of the Mushroom Kingdom. I don't even think Midbus had an icy heart, so he could even end up falling victim to it if not protected from the aura of the power. Good idea, as always. Very fitting for a vampire theme too, by the way.
Post by solidfalcon3 on May 4, 2014 18:06:10 GMT -5
Kirby games doesn't have an annoying game developper that insist on a "No Story" policy either, in fact should the original kirby creator come back, i may argue that the Kirby games would get even more plot.
Love as always be a theme in vampire stories, you have one story that say that Dracula became a vampire after his wife died and went on a rampage against the world for taking her away (this what inspired Count Bleck).
Another story is that Dracula was once zealous christian who served god but one day his unrequited love killed herself after receiving a false report of his death, enraged that his wife is now da(m)ned (fuck censors) for committing suicide, Dracula desecrated his chapel and renounced God, declaring that he will rise from the grave to avenge Elisabeta with all the powers of darkness. In a fit of rage, he stabs the cross with his sword and drinks the blood which pours out of it.
I think the second story would work pretty well for an Antasma backstory
Cool! I had no idea all that was behind Bleck. Sounds just like him. ^_^
I agree. The first story is like Bleck. The second one could fit Antasma. We will just have to find a way to fit him into all the fine details.
We need a cool list of Locations to visit too! We already have the final area, and the area for Midbus, but I wonder if any church locations could make it in. How far could that idea go? A chapel would be nice and fitting. We technically had a wedding chapel/alter already in SPM. Like you said, this will have some heavy themes.
Post by solidfalcon3 on May 4, 2014 18:34:30 GMT -5
Interesting fact, Antasma is associed with spirals, in the merloo pic (the guy who supposedly wrote the light prognosticus) there is eyes with spirals:
Now that i realize it all the male ancients have yellow eyes and purple skin just like Antasma (suddently it may explain why he can use love)
Well Antasma backstory could go like that:
He was a member of the tribe of Darkness who once fell in love with a girl, eventually he was forbiden from seeing her, Antasma still managed to sneak out only to discover that she ended her days out of pain of not seeing him. Furious and sad he turned himself into a bat to forget the loss and banished himself to Pi'illo island, so he may live happily as a small bat, sadly he accidently ate a nightmare which sparked the events of DT.
I did not know if that purple was a shadow or his skin. Nice eye for details. I never really connected them.
Good, his story sounds similar enough to Bleck but still different enough to stand alone. I wonder how he came across the nightmare. We have to make it obvious that he did not really want to become this way. Too bad he might never see his love again. Bleck did eventually see his love again. Will Antasma have a happy ending kind of like Bleck or a tragic ending? Bleck got lucky after all. He did not even intend to see his love again.
Post by solidfalcon3 on May 4, 2014 19:04:41 GMT -5
A way to connect the nightmare would be that, he mistook the nightmare for one of his favourite food (which happen to be because it was the food the girl would bake for him and thus stayed as a phantom memory).
To expand a bit the backstory above, he was doing his job within the forest as alway but he secretly wanted to leave even through this was against the rules of the tribe of darkness, one day he meet the girl who lost himself in the forest and was unconsious, against the tribe rule, he took care of her and healed her. The girl was from the outside world which is why Antasma took care of her, so he could heard her speaking about what the outside world look like.
Yeah, like I said, similar in some regards, but able to stand on its own. In fact, I especially like the fact that he wants to learn so much about the outside world because he has never seen it. So he has love for her, but also curiosity about his world and own existence, as well as hers. This really makes him feel human in a way, and adds so much. This also makes the tribe he and Bleck belonged to seem like an oppressive force. One that very much wants to keep the members in darkness, in more ways than one.
I love this so far! We have come a long way. Well, mostly you! This is well thought out.
Post by solidfalcon3 on May 4, 2014 19:21:38 GMT -5
And that really fit with the quote he utter toward Bowser: "All i vish for is the freedom to spread my vings. I vish to do anything i vant und then, i vill be happy" Bonus point if he said that toward the girl.
Post by solidfalcon3 on May 4, 2014 20:17:04 GMT -5
For Antasma plan, it could be an inverted bleck, bleck want to destroy the world out of the sadness of losing his love, antasma want to bring back his love even if he has to destroy the world for that.
This would fit about why he could use love against you, he isn't fighting out of hatred or pride, he is fighting out of mad love.
Funnily enough Antasma seem to have a lot of pride (not unlike Midbus), a definite trait of bleck's clan.
Man so many possbilities, i really hope Nintendo will bring him back, i really would love to know more about this bat king.
"But Midbus has pride." That's why Fawful helped power him up instead of joining the battle. Oh, and it seemed like Fawful brought out some kind of latent ability to use ice in Midbus, so maybe not all of his kind can harness their power without some aid from some type of device. What do you think? Could Antasma even further this since he has so much power.
Yep! I hope he returns, more so now that we made some ideas! A villain fighting for this would differ from anything before. We had villains like Bleck and Naraku who use hatred, but not many like Antasma.
Post by solidfalcon3 on May 5, 2014 13:32:03 GMT -5
Idk but if he is indeed supposed to be combination of all villains, i would argue that if you add the missing traits he would have a more humanoid body (Dimentio, blumière), count bleck styled shirt abeilt black-purple with his red tie, black pants and shoes (dimentio), quite long spiked hair (dark star, dimentio and Shadow Queen), a face which is a mix of dimentio, cackletta and Shadow Queen, possibly even pretty feminine.
Post by solidfalcon3 on May 5, 2014 13:50:49 GMT -5
I'm saying that because Antasma's face slighty change each time he transform (in bat form, he is very cackletta-like and oval, in normal form he is a bit more rounder and look more a combination of a shroob face and cackletta, in his battle form his fangs are longer, the top of his head is rounder and more adult looking)
A luigi partner could be the non-fawfulized version of the snawfuls (after all those ennemies aren't from Bowser's army), other non-fawfulized snawfuls could workd as Midbus minions